Options
Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 2,907
March 25 in General Discussions
I just wanted to address a lot of the claims that try to defend For The People and Buckle Up since I personally feel like they fail to actually address the issues and weaknesses of the perk combo.
At times it feels more like people are intentionally beating around the bush to keep a busted perk combo in the game as opposed to addressing issues in balance that exist, and this is an issue that persists for both sides (Eruption, Dead Hard, etc. etc.).
”Just don’t slug.”
I really hate For The People + Buckle Up, and anytime I bring it up, I always get the response of “just don’t slug.” Ah yes, let me just not slug… even though Im recovering from hitting a Basic/Special Attack.
I have committed the awful crime of leaving a Survivor on the floor (against my will) for 0.02 seconds and got punished for it… therefore it is fair and balanced and Im just bad at the game and so and so forth.
“It only works in SWFs since you cannot easily track your teammates in SoloQ.”
There is this magically thing called “Aura Reading”. You can easily just bring a key that tracks teammates, or bring perks like Bond or Empathy.
Yes, I know this will require more investment into it but both perks are really good information perks to begin with and can help your team in many situations. There is a reason why I almost always run Bond in SoloQ, the information alone is insanely valuable.
“It requires two perk slots.”
Okay and?
Perks are typically stronger if they have synergies with one another, in fact we see busted perk combos on both sides, so realistically the amount of perks being used is not as important as the end result.
”Hit the Healthy Survivor instead of the Injured Survivor.”
This theoretically puts the Killer into a lose/lose situation.
- Hit the Healthy Survivor, both make distance, you lose a down.
- Hit the Injured Survivor, the Healthy Survivor will just pick them up and they both get Endurance.
These type of lose/lose situations are why Decisive Strike got nerfed in Patch 6.1.0 to be disabled during EGC.
None of this is to create an “Us VS Them” of course.
Both sides to have busted stuff. Ive already made posts before about the current Killer meta in the past. I realistically feel as if both should be addressed.
15
GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
March 25 edited March 26
Options
What makes this Combo difficult to balance is that, on their on Buckle up and FTP are completely fine/fun however when put together, its just way too strong, like DMS with Pain res, the only difference is that it can only be used 4 times (To be fair, you will most likely use FTP+Buckle up once a match), and can be can be countered by letting go of the gen before the pain res hits, after all you can see it coming, and see who has not been hooked yet.
Honestly just add a text blerb on FTP that says "You, and the person you heal cannot receive the endurance status effect after healing for 10 seconds" boom, done and you don't need to nerf either perks and allow buckle up to still work
GolbezGarlandGabrant Member Posts: 820
March 25
Options
It happens less than you think. I'd like someone to actually do a % of times they got hit by the combo.
6
Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409226/for-the-people-buckle-up
Wonderful post. I'd like to ask what you would consider equally busted on killer side, if there is any. No other reason other than I'm curious.
It seems perk combos as of late have become quite a strain on people enjoying the game. I know its just forum posting, a small sample, but its still here. FTP+BU, Gen blocking perk combos, and a few more Im sure.
Im not defending it or any combo really. But I think having them currently is better than not. I hate saying "Well this side has this, so we need X". Its a terrible line of thinking with dbd as it's never going to be 'balanced.' So instead, I think FTP+BU is broken, do killers have something equal?" Answer: Equal in perk combo? Nah. Equal in OP and without counterplay? Definitely.
I hate bringing it up but solo'Q sucks right now and the #1 reason is the absurd amount of tunneling I see. I don't care 'about' tunneling, and I dont want it gone. I just want to see much less of it during the first minute of the game. Til then, I wouldn't advocate for changing these busted combos of both sides. Probably a hot take, eh.
2
coolgue1 Member Posts: 82
March 26
Options
FTP +BU IS THE ONLY WAY TO COUNTER TUNNELING I DONT SEE WHY THE PERKS SHOULD GO WHEN OVER HALF OF THE COMMUNITY USE CRUTCHES AND CALL IT SKILL UNTILL TUNNELING IS ADRESSED OR EVEN Noed their no issue really and btw they have to scrafise 2 perk slots for something killer can do base kit so and it not like they are doing a gen I mean if you just hit the FTP guy they can't use it not like healing is quick it takes forever not saying it balance ither but right how for the way most killers play it pritty balanced
2
xltechno Member Posts: 1,026
March 26
Options
It's certainly a pain, but I don't want the FTP buckle to change.In return, it doesn't complain about slugs, tunnels, or camping.So everything is okay.Let's give our all to each other.
Every survivor and killer, before you start chanting hate, take action. Yes, it's not fair unless it's "mutual".
crogers271 Member Posts: 1,414
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409226/for-the-people-buckle-up
As a person who would like BU+FTP to go at this point because it usually hurts the survivors more than helps, but thinks the complaints about it are overblown, let's look at the points:
”Just don’t slug.”I've never seen this used as a defense, but I'm sure some people say it. They would be wrong.
“It only works in SWFs since you cannot easily track your teammates in SoloQ.”Kind of the opposite of this. BU+FTP is really the only option you can use outside of SWF. SWFs can organize pallet saves, going down away from walls, etc. If you are soloq this is the only reliable option you have. Take it away and the difference between SWFs and soloq is even more drastic.
“It requires two perk slots.”If you take this as the only argument, sure, its not a good one. But its not meant to say because two perks slots are used it can be anything, but because its two perk slots it should be stronger than something one perk slot can do.
”Hit the Healthy Survivor instead of the Injured Survivor.”This theoretically puts the Killer into a lose/lose situation.Hit the Healthy Survivor, both make distance, you lose a down.Hit the Injured Survivor, the Healthy Survivor will just pick them up and they both get Endurance.
These type of lose/lose situations are why Decisive Strike got nerfed in Patch 6.1.0 to be disabled during EGC.Under this logic all situations are lose / lose. Do I go after one survivor while others do gens? Do I hook the downed survivor and let others heal?
What you are calling lose / lose are trade offs and that is the basis of the killer role.
-
Reasons why BU+FTP is not a problem
1 - It takes a survivor off of gens. You get 33% slowdown.
2 - The trade offs the survivors do for it are inferior to other methods they have (pallet saves / flashlight / flashbang / sabo) - its easier to do, but more costly.
3 - You get a free injury, if you manage to body block or otherwise catch one of those two survivors quickly, you've made time.
4 - Multiple perk slots to use effectively, especially if they throw bond into the mix.
The trade off on the survivor side, what the perk slots could otherwise be doing plus the time away from gens, justifies a strong effect.
1
th3 Member Posts: 1,801
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684810#Comment_3684810
You can't let go of the gen before it hits anymore, before you could react if you were fast enough.
MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 1,734
March 26 edited March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684815#Comment_3684815
Yeah I agree with this.
Sure it is annoying but I played over 200 hours of DBD in the last 2 weeks (yes, I know I need help) and I saw this combo maybe twice in all my survivor and killer games over that time.
I tried running it myself but the value just isn't there enough for me to justify it and I find perks like We'll Make It and Kindred give far more value overall than I ever got out of Buckle UP/FTP
4
GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
March 26 edited March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684907#Comment_3684907
A factor that is somewhat forgotten is enjoyment. It’s not fun to watch a survivor you spent so long to down get instantly picked back up with zero counter play, it’s demoralizing and and it incredibly unfun.
the deal with flashlights, pallet saves, and hell even flashbangs all require good positioning, and timing. And they all have counterplay to it, MFT + Buckle up doesn’t, it undoes all effort in a chase, and puts you in a lose lose situation.
no matter who you chase they get advantage, thanks to the endurance to reposition to a significantly safer tile, undoing all work put in
3
MrMori Member Posts: 1,217
March 26
Options
Just make it so Buckle Up doesn't give the user any Endurance, only the person they picked up. Problem solved.
crogers271 Member Posts: 1,414
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684927#Comment_3684927
A factor that is somewhat forgotten is enjoyment. It’s not fun to watch a survivor you spent so long to down get instantly picked back up with zero counter play, it’s demoralizing and and it incredibly unfun.Sure, it's just a totally different topic than balance discussions. What is or is not fun is the most important element of the game, but its also the most subjective.
GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,367
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685180#Comment_3685180
So then they run Made for This instead.
Granted, in order to cover all bases you'd need to run 3 perks, but it still forces the killer to gamble. Either survivor could have Endurance, without there being any real tell. Hell, both could have it. Or even neither of them, and the killer would have no way of knowing without waiting out the 10 seconds.
1
GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
March 26 edited March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685180#Comment_3685180
No! Buckle up isn't a problem its a fine perk that can come in clutch. Same with FTP, completely fine perk that is really good, however if you combine both its very problematic. There needs to be a way to change both without gutting any of them.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685197#Comment_3685197
FTP doesn't proc MFT because FTP doesn't count as healing, rather a health state switch. so MFT doesn't really undo anything
Post edited by GeneralSkien on
GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685184#Comment_3685184
A big problem is that you lose if it gets off, you have no choice but to let BOTH go. A single proc of this combo completely kills all pressure the killer has, because there is no counterplay against it. with flashlights and flashbang, and pallet stun, it isn't the end of the world as its only 3 seconds, and it doesn't take long to catch up, but this is 10 seconds of just invincibility that can be pulled off anywhere anytime.
1
GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,367
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685212#Comment_3685212
If that's the case, then I'm a bit confused as to why the interaction does work with Buckle Up, but not with MfT.
1
Xernoton Member Posts: 5,307
March 26
Options
Don't worry. Only 6 more years and they will maybe consider looking at this combo again. The fact that this is a thing is infuriating. I mean, what the hell is the killer supposed to do? Switch to Tombstone Myers mid match? You just take away the killer's down and now they have to go for another chase. They cannot progress and need to spend another 20 seconds (optimistic) to hopefully get a down.
Yeah, one survivor didn't work on gens for a few seconds but that means nothing when the other 2 still progress while the killer cannot progress their objective. Slightly slower progression is much better than no progression at all.
2
Hexling Member Posts: 657
March 26
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409226/for-the-people-buckle-up
I 100% hate the combo never run it almost never see it its just as bad as tunneling and both need to be addressed.
Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,829
March 27
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685307#Comment_3685307
stbfl+rapid is good solution. forced hesitation beats the combo. it is just that most killer builds are game-delay perks, FTP+Buckle up is amazing combo for countering game-delay perks by game-delaying the killer downs. game-delay vs game-delay.
1
Xernoton Member Posts: 5,307
March 27
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685658#Comment_3685658
STBFL + Rapid Brutality does not help. Hitting them while they still have the Endurance effect allows them to cover more ground than if you just walked after them until it has worn off. So you basically give them more resources to work with.
Also, STBFL + Rapid Brutality isn't as good as people think. That survivor gets to the very next loop and has to play around it. This is no different from STBFL only. The exception is Deathslinger because you're pretty much down immediately, if he can hit you once without his power.
Hexling Member Posts: 657
March 27
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685658#Comment_3685658
No the perk combo just needs to go. Its just pretty broken and gives killers a reason to say they have to tunnel.
Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 2,907
March 27 edited March 27
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685257#Comment_3685257
Made For This only works while Injured. When you use FTP, you are considered Healthy, meaning you shouldnt get Endurance from MFT.
MFT + FTP was originally bug, and was not intended. Mandy explained this a few times when it got patched since a lot of people were confused about the interaction.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685658#Comment_3685658
FTP transfers the Obsession to the user. They can bodyblock and I will lose stacks. This combo is not sufficient counterplay.
UnluckyMan Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 5
March 27
Options
I sometimes think that devs forgot why some overpowerd stuff was removed. There is a reason why first version of BT was changed. Right now it's back but with multiple uses and no hooks are required. Same with pop and PR old pop -25% while gen is kicked. PR -25% no kicking required. At least only few things like that are in the game right now.
Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,829
March 27
Options
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685911#Comment_3685911
you get 1 extra stack for hitting non-obsession and you wait out 10 second of endurance. The cost of hitting obsession becomes 1 stack since obsession is injuring themselves for free if they body-block.
I have still won matches vs FTP+Buckle as killer. the perks gives you injured presence as killer for reduced hook presence.
